Switching from phpGroupware to eGroupware ?

[Olivier Berger]

Hi.

I'm sad I have to say so, but "I dare say it lound : the phpGroupware
project is quietly dying (at least from my point of view)." in :

http://www-public.it-sudparis.eu/~berger_o/weblog/2008/09/16/switching-from-phpgroupware-to-egroupware/

I think it's sad but we have lost faith in the project being able to
recover, so for our specific case, I think we're going to invest on
eGroupware for the next weeks.

So long.

Kind regards,

P.S.: we're probably going to keep maintaining what's in Debian (lenny)
for some time, but I assume we may lose interest in doing so considering
the other projects we'll be involved in in the future.

[Giorgio Pioda]

Hi Olivier

I dont blame on that decision... I've to admit that I'm also considering the migration. Phpgroupware seems dead; Trunk is full of bug and it is not even possible to test it since it isn't installable and I don't see almost any development on the road.

cheers

gfwp

P.S. See you soon, we will meet in egrouware ;).

Sent from the phpGroupWare forums @ forums.phpGroupWare.org

[Sigurd Nes]

Post by Giorgio Pioda
Hi Olivier
I dont blame on that decision... I've to admit that I'm also considering the migration. Phpgroupware seems dead; Trunk is full of bug and it is not even possible to test it since it isn't installable and I don't see almost any development on the road.
cheers
gfwp
P.S. See you soon, we will meet in egrouware ;).

Hi all,

Allow me to implement what I need and it will be fixed in a flash - as:
1) ability to turn off notices from being displayed (using log level) to quicly
swith from developer-mode to user-mode
2) configurable safetylevel on passwords
3) pdo for db-abstraction (faster and more secure)
4) keep the ability to do cloning of db-objects
5) keep the license at GPLv2 - " or (at your option) any later version."(to
legally allow back-ported FelaMiMail from egroupware) - as web apps are not
particularly subjected to "Tivoization"

We are bringing developer resources into the project (tomorrow I leave for Peru
to visit our team of 3 developers which has just started) - we are soon to
extend the system with a lease management module and we also want to look into
how ged could fit into project management using interlink for relations and
tracking. We are also looking into integration with mobile platforms (currently
playing with the "Acer Aspire One" and "htc x7501")

Bottom line: if we could have some influence - we could contribute a lot to the
project.

We are trying to build a community for professionals based on the Facilities
Management angle - but we would really like this to extend the original
community and be a part of the original project.

Regards

Sigurd

[Giorgio Pioda]

Hi sigurd,

Ok, I register that the patient is still breathing... ;)

I think that what is really needed is a real cleanup of bugs and/or of stupid missing stuff like SMTP auth, fudforum and php5, ...

Felamimail coul be a solution for the SMTP-auth problem, NICE.

The the second urgent issue is to generate a real DOCUMENTATION (admins, users, developers). I think that most administrators looking for a groupware keep their fingers off from phpgroupware just because of this missing feature.

cheers

gfwp.

Sent from the phpGroupWare forums @ forums.phpGroupWare.org

[Maât]

Post by Giorgio Pioda
Hi sigurd,
Ok, I register that the patient is still breathing... ;)

yes it is :)

Post by Giorgio Pioda
I think that what is really needed is a real cleanup of bugs and/or of stupid missing stuff like SMTP auth, fudforum and php5, ...
Felamimail coul be a solution for the SMTP-auth problem, NICE.

well... we allagree that there are many things to do :)

Post by Giorgio Pioda
The the second urgent issue is to generate a real DOCUMENTATION (admins, users, developers). I think that most administrators looking for a groupware keep their fingers off from phpgroupware just because of this missing feature.

happy to read that... very happy :)

i've started a developpers guide and i'm ready to help for others docs
but i will not be able to do everything alone. Are you ready to give a
little bit of time for that Giorgio ?

cheers,
Maât

[Giorgio Pioda]

Maat wrote on Wed, 17 September 2008 04:00

Post by Maât
i've started a developpers guide and i'm ready to help for others docs
but i will not be able to do everything alone. Are you ready to give a
little bit of time for that Giorgio ?

I still have to decide: migrate or not migrate that is the question (not in front of a skull but in front of my server)

Given that I'll stay, the answer is yes (with my very very spare time), since I have administration experience since about 14 months on a productive machine with about 170 users (we use phpgroupware for distance-learning)

I can also program in php... but without an updated devel-doc I don't put my fingers into the sources (and again my spare time is really spare). Why not writing a stupid "hello world" example with the application registration in the devel-doc.

cheers again

gfwp
.

Sent from the phpGroupWare forums @ forums.phpGroupWare.org

[Dave Hall]

Post by Giorgio Pioda

Post by Giorgio Pioda
Hi Olivier
I dont blame on that decision... I've to admit that I'm also

considering the migration. Phpgroupware seems dead; Trunk is full of
bug and it is not even possible to test it since it isn't installable
and I don't see almost any development on the road.

It is a shame to lose users and developers, but at this stage I can not
offer much to keep you. I have put a lot of time into developing new
feature for phpgw, but then when bugs are found by Sigurd he fixes them
in a private tree and refuses to release them without a string of
conditions attached to them.

Post by Giorgio Pioda
1) ability to turn off notices from being displayed (using log level) to quicly
swith from developer-mode to user-mode

Discussed ad nausem - you were told how to solve this but ignored it

Post by Giorgio Pioda
2) configurable safetylevel on passwords

Submit a patch for consideration

Post by Giorgio Pioda
3) pdo for db-abstraction (faster and more secure)

Discussed and won't be considered for 18 even if the issues with the
code and licensing are resolved.

Post by Giorgio Pioda
4) keep the ability to do cloning of db-objects

Discussed in depth - the policy is clear

Post by Giorgio Pioda
5) keep the license at GPLv2 - " or (at your option) any later version."(to
legally allow back-ported FelaMiMail from egroupware) - as web apps are not
particularly subjected to "Tivoization"

This is not possible as we are a GNU package - if you want a GPLv2 only
version of phpgw filled with hacks you are free to create your own
project or join egroupware.

Post by Giorgio Pioda
Bottom line: if we could have some influence - we could contribute a lot to the
project.

Influence? It is a community, you are free to participate in the
discussions, but you also have to live with the decisions of the
community. It doesn't help your case to keep on raising the same issues
over and over again. Also threatening people doesn't go down too well
either, just because you aren't getting your own way.

Cheers

Dave
--
Dave Hall (aka skwashd)
Coordinator - Community Building
phpGroupWare
e ***@phpgroupware.org
w phpgroupware.org
j ***@gmail.com
sip ***@fwd.pulver.com
_ ____ __ __
_ __ | |__ _ __ / ___|_ __ ___ _ _ _ _\ \ / /_ _ _ __ ___
| '_ \| '_ \| '_ \| | _| '__/ _ \| | | | '_ \ \ /\ / / _` | '__/ _ \
| |_) | | | | |_) | |_| | | | (_) | |_| | |_) \ V V / (_| | | | __/
| .__/|_| |_| .__/ \____|_| \___/ \__,_| .__/ \_/\_/ \__,_|_| \___|
|_| |_| |_|Web based collaboration platform

[Giorgio Pioda]

skwashd wrote on Wed, 17 September 2008 06:24

Post by Dave Hall
but then when bugs are found by Sigurd he fixes them
in a private tree and refuses to release them without a string of
conditions attached to them.

Hmmm GPL is not GPL any more ?

Anyway, is it possible to get those patches? Where ?

cheers

gfwp.

Sent from the phpGroupWare forums @ forums.phpGroupWare.org

[Dave Hall]

Post by Giorgio Pioda
skwashd wrote on Wed, 17 September 2008 06:24

Post by Dave Hall
but then when bugs are found by Sigurd he fixes them
in a private tree and refuses to release them without a string of
conditions attached to them.

Hmmm GPL is not GPL any more ?

The GPL doesn't compel anyone to release patches to upstream. You are
only entitled to receive the source for a GPL product if you have access
to the binary. In the case of (unencoded) php scripts you have access
to the source.

Post by Giorgio Pioda
Anyway, is it possible to get those patches? Where ?

Sigurd has already stated his conditions here for making such patches
available. I think that it is a real shame that Sigurd would rather see
trunk be unusable and win some stupid point scoring game rather than get
on with the job of making trunk releasable.

Cheers

Dave

[Sigurd Nes]

Sigurd has already stated his conditions here for making such patches available. I think that it is a real shame that Sigurd would rather see trunk be unusable and win some stupid point scoring game rather than get on with the job of making trunk releasable.

Obviously it is the other way around:)
The trunk is now not very usable....
I think that it is Dave that has his stupid point scoring game going - but there is no point in trying to argue - as he has never once deviated from his religious kind of dogmatic arguments - he simply can't be wrong. He'd rather see the system go down the toilet. (No wonder why people has left the project)

But rather than struggling with the child and wait another 5 years - I have fixed it for my self.

Regards

Sigurd.

Sent from the phpGroupWare forums @ forums.phpGroupWare.org

[Chris Weiss]

Post by Sigurd Nes

Sigurd has already stated his conditions here for making such patches available. I think that it is a real shame that Sigurd would rather see trunk be unusable and win some stupid point scoring game rather than get on with the job of making trunk releasable.

Obviously it is the other way around:)
The trunk is now not very usable....
I think that it is Dave that has his stupid point scoring game going - but there is no point in trying to argue - as he has never once deviated from his religious kind of dogmatic arguments - he simply can't be wrong. He'd rather see the system go down the toilet. (No wonder why people has left the project)

the core issues still seam to be based around licensing, and that is
not something new around here. it's simply not negotiable.

and the notices thing, well I don't see why either of you care so
much. it's like 3 lines of code or something terribly trivial.

[Dave Hall]

Post by Dave Hall
Sigurd has already stated his conditions here for making such

patches available. I think that it is a real shame that Sigurd would
rather see trunk be unusable and win some stupid point scoring game
rather than get on with the job of making trunk releasable.
Obviously it is the other way around:)
The trunk is now not very usable....
I think that it is Dave that has his stupid point scoring game going -
but there is no point in trying to argue - as he has never once
deviated from his religious kind of dogmatic arguments - he simply
can't be wrong.

Oh I am so sorry, I was wrong on the following:

* Switching to UTF8 for real i18n support
* Making cloning the db object an independent connection to the db
* Checking licenses before using code
* Implementing proper input sanitation
* Adding support for proper debugging of code
* Switching to PHP5
* Ensuring we comply with GNU Project guidelines
* Getting gSoC students to work on generic functionality
* Not relying on out dated anti patterns

These are things all supported by the community, so are you saying that
the phpGW community has "never once deviated from [its] religious kind
of dogmatic arguments - [it] simply can't be wrong"?

I think it is more that you can't handle not getting your own way. Like
others in the community I am more than happy to have the debate and then
live with the result. I don't continue to raise the same issue over and
over again when the project's position is clear.

As has been pointed out to you in the past, we strive for elegant
thought out solutions - not dirty hacks. Maybe you need to look back at
your proposals in this context to see why there has been little support
for your positions. Personal attacks don't further your cause either.

He'd rather see the system go down the toilet. (No wonder why people
has left the project)

LOL

People who want/need something else are free to choose a different road.
I think there are people still in the project who share a vision of
developing a quality collaboration platform.

Cheers

Dave
--
Dave Hall (aka skwashd)
Coordinator - Community Building
phpGroupWare
e ***@phpgroupware.org
w phpgroupware.org
j ***@gmail.com
sip ***@fwd.pulver.com
_ ____ __ __
_ __ | |__ _ __ / ___|_ __ ___ _ _ _ _\ \ / /_ _ _ __ ___
| '_ \| '_ \| '_ \| | _| '__/ _ \| | | | '_ \ \ /\ / / _` | '__/ _ \
| |_) | | | | |_) | |_| | | | (_) | |_| | |_) \ V V / (_| | | | __/
| .__/|_| |_| .__/ \____|_| \___/ \__,_| .__/ \_/\_/ \__,_|_| \___|
|_| |_| |_|Web based collaboration platform

[Maât]

Blah blah blah
yes / no / yes / no / i'm right / you're wrong /

whoever is right or wrong can be debated endlessly...when you'll just be
bones and dust the troll will stop at last.

Till this moment of rest and peace you can choose :

-- either to go on fighting, give a very poor image of yourselves and of
phpGW project and wonder why nobody wants to get in
-- or to try an other way (don't limit yourselves... nothing is
impossible if you really want to make cool things happen)

Maât

/me ducks to avoid weapons :p

[Chris Weiss]

Post by Maât

Blah blah blah
yes / no / yes / no / i'm right / you're wrong /

whoever is right or wrong can be debated endlessly...when you'll just be
bones and dust the troll will stop at last.
-- either to go on fighting, give a very poor image of yourselves and of
phpGW project and wonder why nobody wants to get in
-- or to try an other way (don't limit yourselves... nothing is impossible
if you really want to make cool things happen)

in general I fully agree with you, but because the FSF holds phpgw
copyright and because we are a GNU project some things simply are not
negotiable and some people seem to have issues accepting this.

[Chris Weiss]

Post by Giorgio Pioda
skwashd wrote on Wed, 17 September 2008 06:24

Post by Dave Hall
but then when bugs are found by Sigurd he fixes them
in a private tree and refuses to release them without a string of
conditions attached to them.

Hmmm GPL is not GPL any more ?

nope. there is GPLv2, and GPL v3.